Sunday, December 02, 2007

Here is a clip from Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries. You can click on his link to the right of the page.


Zac said...

Good stuff. Not much in here that Orthodox would find disagreeable, except maybe some of the conclusions that he's making from the text, like somehow Hebrews is saying that because of Christ's one sacrifice we go from the Temple with its mirroring of the heavenly worship to four white walls and a sermon. That's obviously not in the text at all, and maybe he's not saying that, I don't know. Hebrews is really amazing, because it's such a cohesive work on the Christian understanding of the Old Testament. We get some of the clearest statements of Christ's deity from here, and also even some indications of how the apostles had handed down Christian liturgical worship.

We also get from Hebrews one of the many examples that Protestantism is using the wrong version of the Old Testament. Paul plainly quotes from the Greek Septuagint: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you have prepared for Me" (Psalm 46:10)... this is not found in the Masoretic text of the OT Scriptures which forms the basis of most post-Reformation bibles.

Good find.

Ed said...

the mirroring of heavenly worship is spiritual and in our hearts zac, not pictures on the walls or the kind of hats the clergy wears.

Zac said...

Hey Ed! Thanks for the lesson! Have you ever been to an Orthodox Church? Or perhaps have you read a work on Orthodox piety like perhaps On the Prayer of Jesus by St. Ignatius Brianchianinov (you can pick it up in the religion section of most Borders bookstores)? The Orthodox understanding and cultivation of the interior life is quite deep, although I think you're creating a false dichotomy by opposing the one to the other. Why does the interior have no bearing on the exterior? Why does one necessitate the exclusion of the other?

Have you any exposure to Orthodoxy other than the silly Seinfeld episode? By your brief remark I highly doubt it. Cause, I mean, if you want to "witness" to me you've got to know where I'm coming from. I suggest studying books like the one I mentioned above (or Bishop Kallistos Ware's The Orthodox Church also readily available at most bookstores) and just attending an Orthodox liturgy so that you have a better idea of what Orthodox Christians believe and practice. That way you'll be better equipped to convince me!

irreverend fox said...

hey ed! welcome! I'm trying to place you...are you the "ed" from Broadman? if not then I'm not sure if we have met and if we have please forgive me! after preaching in so many churches I struggle keeping up which bothers me so I'm sorry if I should know you and don't!

ed said...

I was saved out from eastern orthodoxy years ago. my comment is not about eastern orthodoxy, it was about evangelical worship. I should have been more clear, sorry. what I am saying is that for us we do believe our worship mirrors heavenly worship and that we join together with the heavenly hosts, spiritually and in our hearts. we can do that with or without hats, smoke and pictures.

nope, I've been reading your blog for several weeks now and really enjoy it. we have not met yet, I now live in the Miami area.

Zac said...


So you were formerly Orthodox? Forgive my skepticism; perhaps you could tell me when your nameday was and which heavenly patron you had. Also, which calendar was your parish on and what was the priest's name who baptized or chrismated you? And which jurisdiction?

Also, what does the priest say when he comes out with the chalice for people to commune?

Forgive my questions if you really are formerly Orthodox as you claim-- but since these things are so common in the Orthodox world these will no doubt be easy questions to answer, so I'm sure you don't mind.


ed said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Zac said...


I don't know why your next comment was deleted, I got updated on my email that your post explained that you weren't mad at my skepticism, but humored. Great! I'm awaiting your answers.

- zac

irreverend fox said...


I am not sure who you are or how you got my blogger password...or if this was a blogger issue that is not your fault. but I got two of your comments, both said the same thing, one from my account and one from yours. I'm changing my password right now, either way, just in case.

just so you know...everything you do on the comment section gets emailed to me...even if you delete it.