Monday, September 17, 2007

BONUS EDITION!

I read a quote by Spurgeon today and thought immediately of this clip and others like it...watch it and then read the quote...

"It is today as it was in the Reformers' days. Decision is needed. Here is the day for the man, where is the man for the day? We who have had the gospel passed to us by martyr hands dare not trifle with it, nor sit by and hear it denied by traitors, who pretend to love it, but inwardly abhor every line of it . . . Look you, sirs, there are ages yet to come. If the Lord does not speedily appear, there will come another generation, and another, and all these generations will be tainted and injured if we are not faithful to God and to His truth today. We have come to a turning-point in the road. If we turn to the right, mayhap our children and our children's children will go that way; but if we turn to the left, generations yet unborn will curse our names for having been unfaithful to God and to His Word." (C. H. S., Sermons, 1888, 83-84; cited in Iain Murray, The Forgotten Spurgeon, 192).

Lord willing I'll be posting on the Biblically supported mandate of Sola Scriptura...

35 comments:

brian said...

That is a GREAT clip! I really respect the idea of putting the truth out there and still remembering God's role.

irreverend fox said...
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irreverend fox said...

Brian,

obviously only God judges who is "in" or "out".

do you believe He has done so already? or do we have to wait to finally find out?

Jesus seemed rather clear when He spoke to Nicodemus and said, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

What does that statement of Christ mean to you Brian?

(am I being a fundamentalist super meanie? opps...I did it again...)

irreverend fox said...

"by Christ" not "of Christ"...

Zac said...

It is one thing to leave the judgment to God, and another entirely never to mention the fact of God's judgment. I don't watch Joel Osteen much, but what little I've seen didn't seem very centered on drawing people to Christ, or even teaching people how to live in Christ. Of course, maybe he really does do those things-- but I haven't seen it.

Conversely, just from my own opinion about evangelistic methodology-- Christ's warnings of the coming judgment seem to be only one way of bringing people to Himself. Another, as exemplified by His parables concerning the Prodigal Son and the Laborers at the 11th Hour, emphasize the unfathomable goodness and mercy of God... this is not the warm soothing comfort of a mother, but the disturbing, upsetting, and world-changing love of the Father who sees his wicked son still far off and runs to him, puts his own ring on his finger and clothes him in finery despite having squandered everything his father had given him. Paradoxically, this goodness also inspires us to deep and sorrowful repentance-- knowing that we have betrayed such kindness, such forbearance, such goodness, continually.

I will conclude with the Orthodox Church's "Prayer of the Hours" which the Church prays at the first, third, sixth, and ninth hours of every day:

Thou, Who at all times and at every hour in Heaven and on earth art worshipped and glorified, O Christ God, Who art long-suffering, plenteous in mercy, most compassionate, Who loveth the righteous and hast mercy on sinners, Who callest all to salvation through the promise of good things to come: Receive, O Lord, our prayers at this hour, and guide our life toward Thy commandments. Sanctify our souls, make chaste our bodies, correct our thoughts, purify our intentions, and deliver us from every sorrow, evil and pain. Compass us about with Thy holy angels, that guarded and guided by their array, we may attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of Thine unapproachable glory; for blessed art Thou unto the ages of ages. Amen.

irreverend fox said...

Zac,

indeed the Father does run to wayward and wicked sons...but of course it is my understanding that not all people are children of God. rather...we are all born children of wrath and the devil Himself. read Romans 8:14. therefore the image of the Father running after the prodigal could not apply to the heathen, pagan or atheist.

Zac said...

I suppose then we interpret this parable of the Lord differently, with the understanding that Christ came to seek and save that which was lost-- that is, us sinners who had squandered God's gift of life in the far country of wickedness.

irreverend fox said...

Zac,

"Christ came to seek and save that which was lost-- that is, us sinners who had squandered God's gift of life in the far country of wickedness."

now THAT is something we can totally say "amen" to.

brian said...

Sorry I missed out on this discussion but I had classes today. I like your thought about God judging people but I don't know if I can answer your question if he has done so already because we're talking about a deity who isn't bound by time. I know before I became a Christian I was out but now that I am a Christian I am in. Since God is both inside and outside of time, can we ever know how He sees us? I mean, does he see me now any differently than he did then if he already knew I'd become who I have? Help me out on that? I'd love to hear all your thoughts on this but I'll have to be out of the discussion a bit because of a busy week.

irreverend fox said...

brian...

great question!

since I just got out of a LONG associational meeting and my eyes hurt...but I'll take a stab at this now...predestination is the most thrilling yet humbling topic of all I suppose...

here's my stab:

if you are one of His I believe God has always ultimately seen you as such.

I believe this view is based, in part, on what God revealed through Paul in his letter to the Ephesians:

"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:3-14 niv)

derek said...

if thats true then it doesn matter if we can tell who is a real christian or not because in the end all that matters is gods view anyway and you just proved joe osteen is right!!!!

irreverend fox said...
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irreverend fox said...

lol...

derek...you should be in the Olympics! cause I think gymnastics is yo thang!

since brians original question was kinda off topic...and since I'm not exactly sure how derek got where he is in that comment...and since I'm about to get us all back on track with "Sola Scriptura"...I'll not take the time or energy to untangle what derek twisted up (specifically: logic)

lol...my eyes are watery now..."Joe" Osteen...lol...

derek said...

why you gota make fun of me pastor????

irreverend fox said...

derek,

because what you said was silly...you silly billy!

derek said...

youre doing it again!!!! pastors are not supposed to act like you!!!!! what is wrong with you?!?!?!?!

irreverend fox said...

hey derek,

get thicker skin or go away. you are going to constantly be offended here if you don't do one or the other.

I tease people...and I get teased...I enjoy laughing...if you tripped a fell in front of me and I saw you were not hurt...I'd laugh, ok?

If you come in here and try to debate me...and refer to Joe Osteen...I will laugh at you.

I get teased all the time…ALL THE TIME…it’s what family does…

Either learn to interact with the men or stay with the boys...you're in the big leagues when you comment here, ok?

To hang around in hear you have to first be Christlike, second have thick skin and third stay remotely on topic.

That goes for everybody.

Naomi said...

That is a very sad clip...to let an opportunity like that pass...to not tell the millions of people watching the FULL truth of the Gospel....it upsets me.

Charles Spurgeon...WOW. He is a man of conviction...if only there were more of them out there today.

derek said...

did jesus tell us to treat people like you are??? is this what you preach??? are you even a christian??? by your fruit you shall know them, and throwing your fruit isn't what jesus meant. seriosly you need to think about how you come across as a pastor if this is what your teaching your people. i thought ephesians says to not let unwholesom talke come out of your mouth and you have done it many times to me. this is wrong!!!!

irreverend fox said...

derek,

your concerns have been noted. thank you.

derek said...

see thats what i mean you just do whatever you want and dont care howit affects others which is one of the big reasons people dont want to come to church anymore. there is something really really wrong with that approach and i cant believe you wont see it and just want to brush my comments under the rug with a quick comment like that. do you bully your congregation this way too?????

Tim said...

derek

dude how old are you anyway? i don't see foxxy bullying anyone and no he doesn't bully his congregation. you should hear all the little jabs we throw at each other in total fun. to an outsider they may sound mean, but they're not intended that way. and what is unwholesome talk? can you define it for me? foxxy may be a pastor, but he's also a human being with a sense of humor (sarcastic though it may be, much like my own at times).

also, just because God may know who's in and who's out before the foundation of the world, doesn't prove olsteens point. the point being made is that olsteen basically said he doesn't know if the Bible is true. as Jesus said "whoever does not believe stands condemned already..." olsteen basically said that's true for him but may not be true for everyone. either it's true or it's not. if it's true then olsteen should say it, but to say he doesn't know...that's just wrong. here he had a chance to unashamedly proclaim the Gospel in front of millions of unsaved people and refused.

Jesus said "I am THE way and THE truth and THE life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through me" John 14:6. That's pretty cut and dried. No one who doesn't come to the Father through Jesus, doesn't come at all. that's not my judgment, that's the judgment of the Son of God. in saying what he did, olsteen flat out denied this. that is sad and wrong.

irreverend fox said...

errrrrr...

*cough*osteen*cough*not*cough*olsteen*cough...

lol

TIm said...

dude are you catching a cold??? yeah yeah yeah... i get it. thanks for pointing that out. cough cough.....now i'm getting it too. lol

derek said...

in this post this pastor has has laughed at me and tried to make me feel stupid and even admits it. then why i tried to talk to him he told me to grow thick skin. did jesus tell us to treat each other this way or arent we supposed to be different???? seriously if this is a post about the bible where in the bible are we told to call each other names and then just get over it. it sounds like you guys like bing sarcastic and making others feel bad just so you can feel good about yourself and that is being a bully with your brain. this is why i never came back to your church!!!

irreverend fox said...
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irreverend fox said...

derek,

I don't even know who you are...I'm not sure what you mean by "why you never came back to my church"...I can't place you...and I keep up with that stuff. Forgive me if I don't remember you...maybe you never introduced yourself.

I'm not going to say this again...you need to grow thicker skin or go elsewhere. You will always be getting offended on this site if you don't choose one of those two options. You only have two...sticking around and whinning is not a third.

We play hard here.

Please let this drop...I'll delete your next whinny comment, ok?

Tim said...

Derek

I don't make fun of people to make them feel bad so I can feel good about myself. I tease and EXPECT in the process to get teased back. To me, there's no fun in picking on someone and not getting it back just as good as I gave. That's just "being a bully." No one has tried to make you feel stupid. There is a think called "fun" and for that it's different for different people. I like a good debate for example. I enjoy good natured ribbings. And really...you think "silly billy" is name calling? I know Foxxy didn't mean to offend with that comment, but I also think most people in this day and age need tougher shells, Christians included. You never answered my questions in the previous comment, but I'll ask another anyway. Does the Bible say we can't rib each other and have fun if it's meant in fun and games? and here's another one. Just EXACTLY how are pastors supposed to act? Please dude, I'm really trying here. I really don't understand how you got where you did.

derek said...

ill answer your question. we're supposed to bring out the best in others and not the opposite. if you dont see that in the bible then i dont know which one your reading because its all over. ephesians says to not let unwholesome talk come out of your mouth but only what is to build others up according to their needs so that it will benefit those who listen and so far ive felt more torn down that built up. and when i ask why its because im supposed to have thick skin which i dont see anywhere in the bible so help me with that one. it sounds like you guys have set up your own rules in defiance of what ive just mentioned the bible says and for that you will be judged by your own actions and if that doesnt scare you it doesnt matter what i say because youre choosing to listen to your own ideas instead of gods. that is something the bible says false teachers will do so pay attention!!! seriously!!!! it also says that pastors will be judged more strictly and should be selfcontrolled and temperate which doesnt seem to go well with "ill just say what i want and tell people to have thick skin" so again these are the bibles words and not mine. you can think im simple but i know that in the end the simple always seem to do better than those who think theyre wise. if you feel like you have to delete this comment go ahead but ive done nothing here but prophetically share the bible so if you want to delete that then thats your own choice to embrace thge consequences. feel free to affirm each other and stick up for each other so you can feel good about your current opinions or embrace what the bible is teaching on this and be transformed.

irreverend fox said...
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irreverend fox said...

derek,

I do hear what you are saying and am sorry if you were offended. Offense is never the point around here...but in order to not be offended one must know up front that we play ruff...and to hack it here one needs thick skin...

both my friends tim and zac have made me feel silly in dialog...and maybe I've made them feel silly at times...we just play hard...and learn from each other here...

this is a common tradition within Christ's Orthodox Church, derek, men who study push the boundaries, I'm sure...you should read of Tertulian, Origen...and later read Luther and Calvin...read Spurgeon...theology is a contact sport...it's like football or UFC...it's fair becaue the rules are understood upfront...if you watch at the end of most UFC fights the combatants hug...I've even seen them kiss each other on the foreheads...out of respect...after a fight!

If you don't like it then don't jump in it...and please don't judge us...our hearts...our motivations...because we do jump in...in order to honor Christ by learning His ways better...and instructing others who may be misled.

Our example is Christ who passionately and publicly rebuked false doctrine. And also Paul was not a nice guy...he was a theological mixed martial artists if you will...

Biblical Christianity is a very masculine, adrenaline fueled, faith...we lack that in the West and do not understand it...because we are not Biblically centered anymore. When adrenaline flows...sometimes the punches hurt...

I am sorry for calling you a silly billy and for laughing at your comment. I did not mean to hurt your feelings.

tim,

derek has answered your question(s)...let us all move on...his answer is his answer�there is no point countering it�

everyone,

all who are born from above are His...we are to love and respect each other as family...forgiving one another if needed...enough of these personal attacks!

derek said...

i agree that iron sharpens iron but the iron is never meant to draw blood. thats the difference between talking theology and making fun of each other.

brian said...

An honest discussion here about sarcasm and put downs. I'd like to think we're beyond this stuff and was hoping for a cleaner discussion among brothers, too. I don't mean to make a judgment but I agree with Derek and think Irreverend fox and Tim may have made some sarcastic comments and sought to justify them. This just stinks guys and that kind of attitude is deconstructive.

Again I don't mean that as a personal judgment because I don't know you all and just did some blog hopping off another site to get here. But you may want to take it as more than a passing comment and truly consider how this is coming across. I know I don't need it and won't be back here again even if the initial discussion sounded interesting.

irreverend fox said...

Brian,

ok.

Tim said...

Derek

Look, I wasn't trying to be offensive and if something that I said was, I apologize. I want you to hear my heart here. My intention is NEVER to make someone feel bad, or stupid. Foxxy and I know each other well and when we spar we both know the other's heart and there's no harm. Neither of us is torn down. We just laugh at the end of things. I am sorry if anything you've felt put down by anything I've said here. If you are in Christ you are my brother. At the end of the day we can all either forgive each other and move on or let things fester. We can get better or get bitter, and the choice is completely up to each one of us.