tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.comments2023-08-13T09:29:33.124-05:00semper reformandairreverend foxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comBlogger865125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-41775020426705890342009-02-13T22:05:00.000-05:002009-02-13T22:05:00.000-05:00All too true.All too true.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-35961439097718579352008-08-29T09:30:00.000-05:002008-08-29T09:30:00.000-05:00hey...I thought "The Ossetian region had democrati...hey...I thought "The Ossetian region had democratically decided to secede from Georgia and declare "autonomy""<BR/>http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-29-georgia-russia_N.htm?csp=34irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-43011466547459563322008-08-28T22:11:00.000-05:002008-08-28T22:11:00.000-05:00Funny, didn't we fight the bloodiest war in our na...Funny, didn't we fight the bloodiest war in our nations history over whether or not states had the right to secede from the union? Another weird thought is that people over here would believe much of what is put out by the BBC. They are notoriously left wing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-80775178667302949502008-08-27T21:51:00.000-05:002008-08-27T21:51:00.000-05:00Just a point of clarification from my last comment...Just a point of clarification from my last comment: When I was talking about the needs of men and women and I mentioned Christ being the exception, it was because he had no inherent needs in regards to his being. Being fully God, he didn't need the affirmation or respect of others. Being fully man also, of course he needed the basics of life, food, clothing and shelter. I wasn't meaning his needs as a man were the same as women. He just didn't carry that kind of baggage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-44787923567653271432008-08-27T20:03:00.000-05:002008-08-27T20:03:00.000-05:00Stevo,Jake the Snake is another great example...to...Stevo,<BR/><BR/>Jake the Snake is another great example...totally different "style" than Stone Cold in many way...but the same principle.<BR/><BR/>you get a gold star today.irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-66025374406208607702008-08-27T18:21:00.000-05:002008-08-27T18:21:00.000-05:00Wow, this is getting good. Ok lets totally take St...Wow, this is getting good. Ok lets totally take Stone Cold out of all of this for a second and replace him with ....JAKE THE SNAKE ROBERTS! Now these guys had totally different personalities in the ring and behind the mic, but were very similar in many ways. They were both MEN. They were both straight shooters. They were intimidating to other dudes. Many of us know Pastor Larrison. (One of the greatest men I have ever met and all who know him would say amen to that). He was not so much of a shouter or screamer, but that guy is a mans man. When he said something you listened. He has a soft spirit and a commanding presence.I know what I am saying is kind rehashed frmo what most of us have been saying, but my point and the point of this latest blog is that there are certain things that click with men in general. As Bish said, we were created different from women, and yes there are exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, most men "like" certain things. Most men dont like flowers or for other dudes to tell them they love them. When they go to church they are surrounded by flowers and things that they by nature just dont care about. I think as Bish said as well, our culture has tried its best and ist still trying to confuse boys who will be men as to what is "normal" for them to like, or feel like. The bottom line is this, Men like Stone Cold because every dude wants to be a MAN. But Jake the Snake is every bit as much of a man, and dudes like him too, but their personalities are differnt. So in this post I think everyone can find some common ground, yes alot of dudes are different and have different personalities. But there are general truths that we need to get ahold of if we are going to get men interested in Jesus Christ in this day and age.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-28306025936066763962008-08-27T18:16:00.000-05:002008-08-27T18:16:00.000-05:00Well then I think we're all on the same page! Ama...Well then I think we're all on the same page! Amazing!<BR/><BR/>Tim...the only reason you never liked Stone Cold was cause he beat up your favorite wrestler...Savio Vega...admit it...<BR/><BR/>lol!<BR/><BR/>I can say for a FACT that I do know one guy who couldn't stand Austin and it was Bish. I do remember that clearly. So I must back up and say that 99.99% of guys under 45 in some way or another get a kick out of Stone Cold...but not Bish. That is the truth and I stand corrected.irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-86450223301864083562008-08-27T17:06:00.000-05:002008-08-27T17:06:00.000-05:00Gary,This is Bish and the other comment above was ...Gary,<BR/><BR/>This is Bish and the other comment above was not me.<BR/><BR/>On to the subject at hand...I agree we need to reach men and that most churches aren't geared that way. I also agree with Mark that many people are looking at the symptoms and not the root of the problem. We need to realize first of all that God created men and women DIFFERENT from each other and the inherent needs of men are different than the inherent needs of women (with the exception of Christ of course). A good illustration of this is asking a room full of people if they would rather feel 1) alone and unloved, or 2) disrespected and untrusted. You will find the majority of women will pick number 2 and the majority of men will pick number 1. That's the way God made us. That's part of the reason that Scripture tells husbands to love their wives and wives to respect their husbands. I've NEVER liked Stone Cold. I don't understand what draws people to him. The way I saw it he was just a loud, arrogant jerk, plain and simple. Yes we need to engage men. Yes we need to be real, passionate, and have real convictions and stick to them. How that looks will vary from person to person. Some people will talk softly and carry a big stick while others will walk around yelling "Weeeeeeeeellll Glory!" I think part of our problem is that masculinity in our society has been so diluted with the femininst agenda no one knows what it looks like any more. Whether the guy's loud, quiet, whatever, you know a real man when you meet him. It's something we may not be able to articulate, we just know it. <BR/><BR/>On a side note about the whole Obama thing...I see him taking multiple sides on a huge range of issues at the same time. That's not standing firm. That's saying whatever you think people want to hear which is exactly what is wrong with our political structure. It's also the same thing that's wrong with the church today. Maybe this isn't such a side note after all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-62586738512972783422008-08-27T16:58:00.000-05:002008-08-27T16:58:00.000-05:00To all... After rereading the last blog by you Ga...To all... After rereading the last blog by you Gary... We stand in agreement and I stand corrected... I have had alot on my mind lately and realize i may have had an axe to grind with the complacency of the church... Tim... thank you for questioning how I read the blog... I was reading more into it...<BR/><BR/>I think we talk too much and do too little...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-8269106488345896212008-08-27T16:04:00.000-05:002008-08-27T16:04:00.000-05:00Mark,asked, "How many men have any of us personall...Mark,<BR/><BR/>asked, "How many men have any of us personally talked to about Christianity and the church to find out why they aren't interested? Are we personally engaging our culture or are we just getting "facts" from popular authors, websites, and studies?"<BR/><BR/>as for me...I can honestly say I do both frequently and with intention. I hope all our church planters can say the same.irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-18169824338900042502008-08-27T14:38:00.000-05:002008-08-27T14:38:00.000-05:00Gotcha... Tim, I may be reading too much into wha...Gotcha... <BR/><BR/>Tim, I may be reading too much into what Gary is writing more than skimming.<BR/><BR/>Gary, I think we agree and will let this go... I think we may define "respect" differently especially as to the Obama issue. I will just read your upcoming blogs before I state anything else. Perhaps I can explain what I mean later with the symptom/problem discussion. Or maybe I am reading more into it than what is there.<BR/><BR/>How many men have any of us personally talked to about Christianity and the church to find out why they aren't interested? Are we personally engaging our culture or are we just getting "facts" from popular authors, websites, and studies?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-90787284481774201052008-08-27T13:47:00.000-05:002008-08-27T13:47:00.000-05:00Mark,I don't understand what you mean by "the prin...Mark,<BR/><BR/>I don't understand what you mean by "the principle you may be looking for is only to the symptom of the problem and not the problem itself..." that's what is tripping me up.<BR/><BR/>Actually...I don't at all think Obama is a real man. But once again...it has nothing to do with style.<BR/><BR/>John Piper is a real man.<BR/>Alister Begg is a real man.<BR/><BR/>I'm not talking about style at all. A "real man" stands firm in his convictions, is bold in his convictions as well (he doesn't keep them to himself when they deal with vital things).<BR/><BR/>I follow politics very closely and I don't believe Obama sticks to anything at all. It's why he is going to lose actually. His position on Iraq is all over the map, he double talks about gun rights, he threw his grandma and pastor under the bus publically, he double talks on the issue of marriage...Obama does everything he can to HIDE his ultra-left wing agenda and philosophy. His views on abortion are WAY extreme...yet he doubles back and tries to come across as more moderate.<BR/><BR/>Anyway...I totally disagree with you about the content of Obama's character and convictions...and I don't think he is a real man at all. As Dick Morris said just last night...he (Obama) can be easily pushed around.<BR/><BR/>(However…incidentally…I could not disagree with his pastor Jeremiah Wright any more…and yet I could not respect him any more either. That guy is a nut case…but he has never backed down even when the flames of controversy were swirling this spring when he came back from sabbatical. He did not back down…and because of that unwavering attitude Obama tossed him under the bus. I think Obama is a real punk actually. I personally think he is a shallow opportunist and I have no respect from him at all. All those wackjobs in Chicago were great when he needed them…now that he doesn’t…well…to hell with them I guess is what he thinks)<BR/><BR/>Tim,<BR/><BR/>is this Bish?irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-68361537892747681132008-08-27T13:35:00.000-05:002008-08-27T13:35:00.000-05:00I understand what you are saying... I am simply s...I understand what you are saying... I am simply stating that you are looking at symptoms of a problem and not the problem itself. I know that Stone Cold is an example... It is not confusing... I am simply stating that the principle you may be looking for is only to the symptom of the problem and not the problem itself...<BR/><BR/>As far as Obama goes, I am simply stating that his stance on certain issues do not waiver. He is a politician and waves like a flag in a storm as has 90% of the politicians. No need to think I am for Obamanation in America :), I was simply stating his drive and attitude for illustrative purposes has gained respect from many men. I have listened to him on interviews and totally disagree with him, but respect that he is taking a stand for what HE believes to be true.<BR/><BR/>However, it would be interesting to see if you consider Obama a "real man" simply because he is not like you or I? Which takes me back to defining a "real man"... <BR/><BR/>I am like the energizer bunny... I just keep going and going and going... I was stopped by the police once... charged with BATTERY...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-68165145936650149022008-08-27T13:31:00.000-05:002008-08-27T13:31:00.000-05:00Are you even reading the blog? Are you just skimmi...Are you even reading the blog? Are you just skimming them? Your points do not seem to relate with the content of the blog.<BR/><BR/>TimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-22730452179624728862008-08-27T12:49:00.000-05:002008-08-27T12:49:00.000-05:00the way a non-Christian like Steve Austin (I don't...the way a non-Christian like Steve Austin (I don't know if he is saved or not, but his character does not profess belief) manifests these principles looks one way.<BR/><BR/>the way Christians and pastors manifest these same principles are very different.<BR/><BR/>I'm asking...what are the principles?<BR/><BR/>that's all...that's all.irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-36716483790449667262008-08-27T12:43:00.000-05:002008-08-27T12:43:00.000-05:00hey Mark,boy do we ever disagree about Obama. but ...hey Mark,<BR/><BR/>boy do we ever disagree about Obama. but I won't go down that road.<BR/><BR/>as I said...flicking someone off is not what we are supposed to do.<BR/><BR/>and as I said...I'm not talking about style here at all. I'm talking about the underlying principles.<BR/><BR/>I'm not comparing Stone Cold to pastors. Just doing the work of a missionary...looking at the culture...and asking "why" do men react to a guy like Stone Cold and not to most pastors.<BR/><BR/>I don't know why this is confusing. I'm simply suggesting there are underlying principles that we as missionaries ought to be paying attention to...and we're not.<BR/><BR/>Stone Cold is just an illustration...I'm not now nor am I ever saying "go do these things" or "say what he says". I'm talking about the underlying principles...the way the manifest themselves in Christian service will OBVIOUSLY not look the same as they do in Stone Cold.irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-7271292130902912642008-08-27T12:33:00.000-05:002008-08-27T12:33:00.000-05:00OK... People may have respected Steve Austin. Bu...OK... People may have respected Steve Austin. But in "REALITY" and not the fantasy wrestling world, someone I work with flipping me off would in turn tick me off. People paid to see something extraordinary, a show in Steve Austin.<BR/><BR/>When you are out in public and someone flips you off, you are not thinking I respect this guy. So the finger and the language is not what gained respect... <BR/><BR/>I agree with firm leadership. John McCain is my choice for various reasons, however, Obama has my respect because he does not waive from his core beliefs. However, he is not an in your face candidate, yet many men (race aside) want him as their president. I can see John McCain as the "Rambo" and Barrack as the "Negotiator".<BR/><BR/>Why? I believe it is not the demeanor of the individual (Stone Cold or Mr. Rodgers), but that they both are two very different men standing on very different platforms for what they believe. They are FIRMLY standing on what they believe.<BR/><BR/>I think comparing Stone Cold to Pastors is sort of like apples to oranges. The attitude addresses symptoms of the disease or problem and not the problem itself. <BR/><BR/>Stone Cold appears to only care about himself and his own interests, that is what he is/was paid to do (and may be like in real life). Ironically, the culture love the personna of an "I don't care I am going to rip off your head attitude" when it is for show or it is in their selfish interest. <BR/><BR/>Pastors are to care for the flock above themselves... Let me rephrase that, all BELIEVERS are to care for everyone above themselves. Unfortunately, many pastors already have the Stone Cold mentality of only thinking of themselves.<BR/><BR/>A good leader IS concerned about the thoughts of his followers. He must put them above himself. My military leaders gained my respect by their experience and concern for the squad, platoon, etc. However, decisions MUST be based on what is best for the whole and not what is popular.<BR/><BR/>I am not disagreeing that we need to reach men, but trying to point out that we strive to medicate symptoms (attitude)instead of curing the problem (devotion).<BR/><BR/>I contend that if a man truly loves the LORD above all else, he will reach other men whether using the middle finger (Stone Cold) or a thumbs up (Tony Dungy). It isn't attitude toward people, it is devotion to their god of choice. Which will in turn change their attitude toward people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-77761743562235977112008-08-27T10:49:00.000-05:002008-08-27T10:49:00.000-05:00Hey Mark,you are exactly right. the thing is that...Hey Mark,<BR/><BR/>you are exactly right. the thing is that Steve Austin is an actor...playing himself...in the context of the fantasy world of big time wrestling, if that makes sense.<BR/><BR/>you are always one step ahead of me here...my next post will be about this middle finger Stone Cold flicks at the crowd. a crude gesture to be sure...but ironically...the people (the men we have such a hard time reaching) actual respect him for doing that because they understand he is going to do what he is going to do and he doesn't care if the fans like it or not...which millions of fans totally admire about him!<BR/><BR/>and it made him MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars!<BR/><BR/>now...and I'll get into this in more detail next time...what if pastors and church leaders understood this a bit more? not that we should literally flick people off (the origins of that gesture is not wholesome), but what if pastors cared more about Jesus than the customers...ERRRRR...members? what if pastors had more of the attitude which said, "all are welcome to come in, not all are welcome to stay"? what if pastors gave the impression to people that "if Jesus don't need you then I don't need you either..."? think about it. if pastors led with an obvious fear of Jesus first would men be more drawn or less drawn to their leadership and take them more seriously? If Stone Cold is any indication…I say “YES”.<BR/><BR/>we've got sheep leading the shepherds and we've got these shepherds who fear the sheep. it's crazy...and men don't respect weakness or timidity. And the crazy thing is that so often pastors will not truly pastor because they don’t want people to leave, because they do care about people AND as you said, often they feel that they can’t “afford” to lose these people…the irony is that what ends up happening is churches with that kind of leadership DIE and their budgets DIE because dudes stay home (putting their $$$ into their stupid truck or something) and these weak pastors end up doing the very thing they fear…killing the budget! Godly and strong leaders don’t have a problem with “budget” for very long…cause they’ll work a side job if they have to and not be afraid to challenge and provoke their people to action in the meantime.<BR/><BR/>Mark, you were in the Military...what if you had a superior who worried about what you guys thought? would you trust the guy if bombs starting going off or bullets started to fly? NO. Men will not follow weak puppets without backbone.<BR/><BR/>for example...John McCain drives me nuts and I will (unless he picks a pro-choice running mate) hold my nose and vote for him. my problem with him is strictly over policy. as a man...I'd follow him to the gates of hell with a squirt gun because I know he is not wishy washy. yes...he upsets me when he goes against my values...but I know that in doing so he does it at HIS OWN POLITICAL EXPENCE. so even though I disagree with the guy I do respect him. I'd trust him.<BR/><BR/>so anyway...more on that later. the question will be "why did the men of the crowd receive Stone Colds middle finger extended at them with respect?"irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-48232764778377249672008-08-27T09:33:00.000-05:002008-08-27T09:33:00.000-05:00For the record, visiting the sick is not wrong. I...For the record, visiting the sick is not wrong. I was speaking of the "required" ministry according to the job description of the universal pastor. I visit the sick, but not because I have to, but because I care to. However, I also have others that visit... It is called ministering.<BR/><BR/>I don't visit everyone that gets sick or has a toe nail removed. I do call and pray with them though.<BR/><BR/>Here is a question to ask your pastor... "If you didn't get paid, what would you be doing?" Their answer should be "the same thing I am doing now except I may have to get a job."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-14736336282449234282008-08-27T09:25:00.000-05:002008-08-27T09:25:00.000-05:00I have perfect pastor hair too, Steve...Great insi...I have perfect pastor hair too, Steve...<BR/><BR/>Great insights...<BR/><BR/>We must remember that Steve Austin (not the bionic man Steve Austin)was an ACTOR. However, the great heroes of history who were bold probably... most assuredly struggled with fear... The difference is they saw something greater EVEN IF IT MEANT DEATH!<BR/><BR/>I think that what you wrote gary is true of the style and symptom of the problem. I believe the problem is that many believers are not living for eternity EVEN IF IT MEANS DEATH!<BR/><BR/>We are more concerned about our era and not the future or the forever. Cash and Career have replaced Calling.<BR/><BR/>If you push the "right" buttons on any man he will fight for what he believes... The problem is he doesn't believe in the "right" things... If someone were to curse your wife or kick your child those are inevitably "right" buttons because we love our spouse and children and being "Stone Cold" shouldn't be a problem... Agree?<BR/><BR/>Why then can one curse God and kick our Savior around and we just let them do it? Because we love the family but not our Savior...<BR/><BR/>Pastors are too into pleasing their patrons (giving congregants) instead of proclaiming the life altering truth. They are also so busy visiting the sick and those thinking of leaving instead of living a life that reveals the LORDSHIP of Jesus Christ.<BR/><BR/>Why can preachers preach about tithes and offerings but not sanctification and being holy? Because the tithes and offerings effect their pocket books.<BR/><BR/>I need to be clear, that this is not every pastor, but I would say over 50% are this way...<BR/><BR/>So is it about attitude (Stone Cold or Mr Rodgers) or about devotion to the ONE TRUE LORD?<BR/><BR/>Just some thoughts... byt the way Steve, you may remember I am bald :)! <BR/><BR/>However, if we cAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-51726198349038137882008-08-27T08:56:00.000-05:002008-08-27T08:56:00.000-05:00Steve,um...I have perfect Baptist pastor hair...wh...Steve,<BR/><BR/>um...I have perfect Baptist pastor hair...what are you saying?irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-28347530709489370002008-08-26T21:50:00.000-05:002008-08-26T21:50:00.000-05:00Reading the comparison of Stone Cold to modern day...Reading the comparison of Stone Cold to modern day pastors is kind of awesome because every dude wants to be the guy that will jump in your face if you cross him,or threaten him. Most dudes have been in a fight in their life and we all get that sick feeling before the fists start to fly. But you would never believe that of Stone Cold. I wonder if pastors or Christians in general ever get that feeling when it comes to doing spiritual warfare with Satan. Its hard to intimidate Satan when we have to think a certain way, or dress a certain way, or act a certain way. But the truth is we are warriors and need to be aggressive and get in the enemy's face Stone Cold style every day. Look nobody is afraid of Mr Rogers. Nobody is afraid of the preacher with perfectly combed hair that says words like thou and hither. We need to be aggressive in this battle against Satan. So I like these articles because it makes me realize that men should be men, like William Wallace, Stone Cold Steve Austin,Aragon from Lord of the Rings, and its ok to get fired up, especially as Shepherds of Gods sheep.Like David killing the Lions and Bears, I am sure he didnt have perfect pastor hair at all lol.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-56362248449379499772008-08-26T10:53:00.000-05:002008-08-26T10:53:00.000-05:00Gary,Sorry for the delay-- of course, all are welc...Gary,<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the delay-- of course, all are welcome at any service. Hope to see you there.<BR/><BR/>Oh also, should probably remind you of our annual Russian Festival coming up in about a month. It's Tuesday and Wednesday, Oct. 7 and 8. Great food, music, russian culture, etc... the best kielbasi you've ever had. Plus they do Church tours and all that, too. <BR/><BR/>www.somethingrussian.com<BR/><BR/>Yes, I did watch the video. I'll try to give you more of my thoughts on it later, though... got class in just a little bit! I thought it was decent, and provocation definitely has its place, as the lives of the great Martyrs show us.Isaachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04085541008709908547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-3195461496389223732008-08-26T10:07:00.000-05:002008-08-26T10:07:00.000-05:00Mark,merely average men are so easily distracted f...Mark,<BR/><BR/>merely average men are so easily distracted from accomplishing their goals each day. not Gary Fox. no sir...I'm not exactly the average idiot.<BR/><BR/>I usually write during my "lunch break", on my day off or when all my church stuff is done for the day (writing is my hobby more or less)...so I'll be getting on it around noon I think...irreverend foxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11460205052566275714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30116318.post-36220732469858612572008-08-26T09:55:00.000-05:002008-08-26T09:55:00.000-05:00I am just writing this to distract you from writin...I am just writing this to distract you from writing a new article... Is it working?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com